Editor’s Note: Recently the Catholic Church excommunicated a Brazilian mother whose a nine-year-old daughter, impregnated by her stepfather, got a legal abortion, as well as the two doctors involved. The national and international uproar resulted in the Church withdrawing the excommunication. However, the debate is still alive within the Brazilian society and in the blogs of Frances Kissling and Elisabeth Garber-Paul, Rewire contributors. In order to get the Brazilian perspective, Rewire News Group interviewed Regina Jurkewicz, Executive Coordinator of the Brazilian chapter of Catholics for Choice.

Rewire News Group: This is not the first legal abortion in Brazil. Has the
Catholic Church previously excommunicated abortion practitioners? 

Regina Jurkewicz: No, I do not know what happened with this Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho. It is well known that the Catholic Church is against abortion under any circumstances, but right now I think that excommunication is a strategy from various groups such as conservatives, and religious fundamentalists, particularly Catholics. It is a very unfortunate decision from the Archbishop because it is an extreme case – a nine-year-old girl, who is so thin, not only who has not a developed body to be able to carry a baby, but who was carrying twins. However, this is the case in which the Archbishop announced the excommunication of the mother and of the two doctors.

RNG: Why have you concluded that this is an overall strategy coming from the
fundamentalist sectors?

R.J.: I saw the same behavior in other countries, such as Colombia and Chile, where there been threats of excommunication. In addition to being a strategy which blocks the participation of the religious in their religion, it generates indignation among the Catholics and Christians, and the population in general. In Brazil, this case has mobilized people to say, “If you excommunicate for this case, I want to be excommunicated too.” It also
generated a huge debate within the Church and within society, because it became symbolic of how cruel the Church can be. Simultaneously, this case became an opportunity for people to talk about abortion and its surrounding circumstances, to air taboos, to realize that there are thousands of other cases of abortions.

RNG: How can we explain that even though the Brazilian population is Catholic, it criticizes the archbishop’s decision?

R.J.: While most Brazilians are Catholic, theirs is a Catholicism that is flexible to other religions. For instance, there are Catholics who are also “Spiritas” (Spiritualists), or who follow the “Umbanda” (Afro-Brazilian religion), or who have even more esoteric practices. So there is not a strict Catholicism. Moreover, people move from one faith to another without trouble, for example from Pentecostal to Evangelical churches.

I consider that the strongest legacy of the Catholicism is the moral vision of sexuality, which is true across Latin America. In Brazilian society there are many ideas that stem from the Church, such as the indissoluble marriage, and others related to sexual morality.

RNG: What have been the reactions to the excommunication from other faiths and religions?

R.J.: One can see a general rejection of the Archbishop’s decision. There is not a unified voice among the religions regarding sexual and reproductive issues. For instance, the Universal Church for the God’s Kingdom, which is an important church and owns a television channel in Brazil, defends a woman’s right to choose. But as to the nine-year-old girl who was raped, all Catholics, theologians, priests and so on rejected the excommunication.

RNG: How has this debate impacted the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Brazilian State?

R.J.: The State has made its position very clear. President Lula da Silva and the Secretary of Health made forceful declarations saying that issues related to the legality of abortion are under the State’s jurisdiction, and so the Church should not demonstrate its opinion through punishments. Recently the Secretary of Health congratulated the doctors who practiced the procedure on the nine year old. It was a very impressive moment, because the Secretary abandoned the platform to look for the doctors who were in the audience. I think the government is behaving appropriately for a secular State, so far. And it is trying to make a stand against the pressure from the conservative sectors.

RNG: What part of society do the conservatives work in?

R.J.: The conservatives have support from different parts of society. For instance, the conservative group Opus Dei is a movement which has been working with university students to gain their support. This is to say it works with the elite of Brazil. Other conservatives have built the movement “Brazil without abortion,” which works with Catholic and Spiritas people, many of whom are members of the Parliament. They are working openly for a religious cause and against abortion under any circumstance. There is, therefore, a conservative charge in the Brazilian Parliament. Conservatives are members of many political parties, including the PT (Labor Party). In fact, Luiz Bassoma, who is the president of “Brazil without abortion,” and is Spirita, also serves as Federal Deputy of Bahia from the PT, the same political party of the Brazilian President. Although the PT has issued a document calling on its members to be ethical and refrain from lobbying on behalf of churches, many have turned a blind eye to this statement.

RNG: Is the conservative orientation of the Vatican linked to these excommunications?

R.J.: The conservative trend in the Latin American Church is not new. It came from the previous Pope, but the current Pope has made additional conservative declarations, such as one against homosexuality or one against the use of condoms.  Thus, society is bombarded with moral declarations related to sexuality by the Vatican and the Pope, who are answering questions that the people are not asking. Nobody is asking whether or not to use condom; it is something that is already in use.

RNG: Do you think that these recent excommunications will influence Brazilian doctors’ decisions in the future as to whether to perform legal abortions?

R.J.: In many cases the doctors refuse to practice legal abortion based on religious conscientious objection. Others are afraid to suffer the pressure against performing abortions from the hospital (where they work), as well as external pressures from society in general to stop doctors from performing abortions in hospitals.

However, this case has served to help doctors understand that they have to attend to these cases. Why? Because on one hand, the doctors who were excommunicated stated that they will do the procedure once again. And on the other hand, as a result of the international and national reaction to the excommunication, the Brazilian National Conference of Bishops as well as the Vatican have withdrawn the excommunication. Even Brazilian politicians against abortion influenced the decision by asking the archbishop to retract the excommunication, because its effect was contrary to what was expected.