Television fashion icon Tim Gunn of Project Runway fame joined supporters of Planned Parenthood South Texas for their annual fundraising luncheon on Thursday, with Gunn appearing with PPST’s president and CEO Jeffrey Hons on stage for a wide-ranging talk about human rights, mentorship, and Gunn’s own struggles with depression and a suicide attempt as a teenager.

Afterward, Rewire’s Andrea Grimes had a chance to sit down with Gunn, a long-time faculty member at Parsons The New School for Design and current chief creative officer at Liz Claiborne, to talk more about how empathy can build bridges across the political spectrum, how to responsibly raise great kids, and—for a bit of fun—the hot looks for Andrea’s new puppy this spring.

Andrea Grimes: You covered so much ground today in your talk on stage. One of the things I was really struck by was your perspective on empathy. I find, in my own work here in Texas, that it can be really hard to talk to people about science-based, medically sound perspectives on reproductive health care. I run into that a lot, and it’s frustrating.

Tim Gunn: I don’t understand it, if you’re a parent and you’re raising kids, how can you teach them falsehoods?

AG: Sometimes people’s worldviews can be really difficult to shake, especially when there’s an aversion to intellectualism. But you know, activists have found that sharing personal abortion stories is one of the best ways to make inroads with people who are against abortion. It can be really effective to say, “This is why I had mine.”

TG: You find that it does open the door a crack? That’s good to know.

AG: But how can we be empathetic without allowing ourselves to be steamrolled, stepped on, pushed over?

TG: I’ve learned there are people, some people, who simply do not possess the capacity to experience empathy. They fall into a very particular category. I’ve learned this from psychologists and some people who are engaged in this with family members or friends: narcissists are not able to experience empathy. It’s fascinating.

AG: There may be some overlap there between people who run for office.

TG: Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. [laughing] And there’s no awareness on their part of what your issue could possibly be. And there’s no getting through. But it’s scary, isn’t it? Because I’d like to think that there are open-minded, well-informed, scientifically savvy narcissists too! I’m sure there are! We want more of those in political offices!

AG: We certainly could use some here. Have you ever been to Texas before?

TG: Oh yes! Many times. And I have to say, on the topic of empathy, those of us who share certain political points of view, societal and cultural points of view, my hat’s off to those of you who are in Texas. Because it’s got to be difficult.

AG: I’m a native Texan, and I went to college in New York City and I lived abroad for a little while, and I tried to leave, but I couldn’t.

TG: That’s good for you.

AG: But that’s certainly not true for everyone, many people in the LGBTQ community are not safe living here, there are many people who can’t live here for all kinds of reasons.

TG: Can I tell you? I haven’t mentioned this to anybody. I was downstairs in the bar last night, I just needed a drink, I didn’t get here until late. For the first time in my adult life, ever—This guy got up and came over to me and said, “You’re a goddamned homosexual!” I couldn’t believe it! I said, “Yes, I am! And I’m proud of who I am!” He said, “You’re a goddamned homosexual!” He kept repeating it. Anyway, I left the bar quickly.

AG: I’m so sorry. That’s terrible.

TG: Oh, no, no, no. But I was stunned. I thought, OK, these things aren’t behind us. And even the term “homosexual”—I haven’t heard that in forever! I thought, Gee, you’re a rather charming character. [laughs]

AG: But for those of us who can stay, I believe there’s a moral imperative to stay.

TG: I totally agree with you. The moral imperative rules. Can I ask you a question? Do you have siblings? What about your parents? In terms of politics?

AG: You know it’s funny, I thought they were tremendously conservative and my dad probably is, but once our lawmakers started passing all these really bad anti-abortion laws, I was talking about it with my mom one day, and she said she didn’t want to go back to before Roe, that women absolutely had to be able to make the choice on their own. I would never have thought.

TG: But that makes her position even better. That’s good.

AG: Again, it’s that one-on-one relating with someone.

TG: Actually, you’ve given me an epiphany saying that. That’s really a good point. Forget about the facts, it’s all about personalizing it.

AG: Many people think of an organization like Planned Parenthood as being some kind of behemoth that’s only about abortion care. But you spent a lot of time talking with Jeffrey Hons today about parenting and mentorship, and building healthy families. Why is that such an important subject for you?

TG: It makes us, in my view, responsible citizens of the world. And as citizens of the world we do have responsibilities. And there are qualities of character that I believe can be cultivated. I believe parents have a responsibility to behave a certain way around their children, or whoever these younger people are, and I really do believe that those qualities are founded at home. They can certainly be founded at school. And I’d love to say friends because they’re other young people. But as a parent, you can’t keep your child under a bell jar. You need to know and be responsible for with whom your children are interacting. What’s happening at school? At the playground? You just need to know. You need to be responsible. That’s why I feel, from a societal and cultural point of view, meals are important. Family meals. And conversation. Turn off that television! Put that computer away!

AG: Revolutionary, coming from a television star!

TG: Oh, you flatter me. But really, let’s talk about your day. Let’s talk about what happened. Because so much can be revealed. I feel like people tend to be so disengaged with one another, and we end up on a trajectory that is so isolated that we think it’s OK. I don’t think it’s OK. We can get used to it, but it doesn’t validate it.

AG: OK, now I’ve got silly questions for you. One of my best friends is a huge fan, and she wanted me to ask you what you wear when you’re not in these great suits. Do you own shorts?

TG: Oh, grandpa has bad legs. I do own shorts. I’ll wear them on my terrace if I’m picking up leaves and things. But I will not wear them to the corner to get a cup of coffee. I’ll wear jeans, and I’ll wear a t-shirt. But I’ll put on a blazer.

AG: My next question is whether you’d advise me …

TG: Advise you?

AG: Well, my dog. This is her Hawaiian shirt:

TG: Can I be honest with you? The print is too big for her scale. She needs a diminutive print. This is overwhelming her. This is making her look like an ottoman.

AG: You’re probably going to say the same thing about her sweater, then. Same problem?

TG: No! I think it’s the palette. It suits her own coloring better. Which is not to say that the Hawaiian print isn’t fun on her. I like the turquoise color, but the scale of the print’s too big. But I like this. It has kind of an English, tweedy vibe. Any other dog clothes?

AG: Her favorite thing to wear is this little hoodie. It’s very casual.

TG: Can I also be blunt? I don’t think green’s her color!

AG: Oh no! It’s my favorite color, I want to put her in everything green.

TG: Because her face is so white, and her paws are so white. I think it kind of gives her a sickly cast. I’d go with jewel tones.

AG: Ah, OK. Well she has this red dress, it’s a Star Trek dress that she’s going to grow into someday.

TG: That’s a great color. It’s deeply saturated. You know what it is? I’d get rid of the pastels. And I say the same thing to adults. She is adorable. I’m already in love with your dog.

AG: Her name is Fizz. For a gin fizz. Because she’s bubbly.

TG: What a sweet name!

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.